Biotech Research 2013/2016: Hand nerves increased in FM (was: New Research)

my biggest issue and the cause of untold nerve pain is a kind of burning heat pain on the pads of my hands.

therefore any heat makes my life un bearable.

nobody or no tablet seems to relieve it...

also. the burning "pad of hand" pain is my ONLY pain that i have. no other pain. thats why i was sure its not fms because those symptoms name WIDESPREAD PAIN THROUGHOUT THE BODY

interesting

wow! I had not heard this before. Thank you for sharing. It IS promising. Once they find the pathology, it's only a matter of time before they can find a fix. Even if it takes years, at leas knowing the pathology researchers are on the right track to find a fix and its in the works. Not to mention, it's now PROVEN beyonfd any doubt that it is a real disease. Hope is renewed here. I only wish we could get this on the front page of every newspaper in the country. :) (wouldn't that be nice?)

Thank you so much for this post!!

Interesting because my temp is usually low.......97.5 to 98.

My temp is never 98.6. This is good solid info. Thanks Linniepies.

Very interesting. My body temperature is usually around 97.3 ~ 98. and I am always cold. 98.8 feels like fever to me. I wonder how many FM patients have low body temperature. I also have low blood pressure.

Hi Sneakers, I believe it is saying neither of those. We produce lactic acid but can't normally remove it from our bodies. It is a natural function but the exit system is blocked.

My body temperature has always been low - 97 and my blood sugar was low up until a few years ago.

This article helps to explain the findings better. So then, we have a temperature dysfunction that leads to improper nutrition in our muscles and skin AND an inability to remove waste products from them. That's pretty serious. How can our bodies function without these tasks being done? Pretty poorly, as it turns out.

Fascinating, because this explains a lot, such as why many of us are hot one minute and then cold the next. BUT I do not understand how and why autoimmune diseases tie in with fibro.

This is a great find. Now perhaps they can find a solution. Thanks so much for posting this!

Hope so! Hate to think of people with other illnesses, like trigeminal nueralgia, living in as bad or worse pain.

Yes, TN is much worse than FM pain! I can say it's living hell -no one can even imagine this type of pain. I've found some self-management to ease the pain though.

I have looked this up several times, the medical data everywhere describes TN as the worst pain known to science, and that is saying something!

I'm so very sorry you suffer this, my heart goes out to you!

Thank you so much for posting this! I've held a similar theory for quite some time, but just couldn't quite put the pieces together. The validation is... well I wanted to say fantastic but really, what a relief! I studied a bit of neurobiology for "fun' as a kid (yes, I was a weird kid LOL). Who knew how much I'd really need that basic understanding later in life?

I found a more detailed article to go along with it that explains it in a bit more detail and in laymen's terms, complete with pictures. I can't sleep, and I've been pretty well fibrofogged most of the day, but this sure helped!

http://www.intidyn.com/Newsroom/Fibromyalgia%20Pathology%20for%20la...

I found that link from this page, I _think_ (2 brain cells rubbing together right now!), which is a bit more geeky. I'm not absorbing it for beans right now, but it looks like it'll be a good read once I can focus a little, and I want to be sure to share it, too. http://www.albany.edu/news/39664.php

I've read tons of research papers... everything I can manage to get my hands on, and in little spurts (I often joke to my other half "I'm still brilliant in spurts!") and this really seems to put it all together!

Love and gentle hugs to all!

OMG this is fabulous! Thanks so much for posting this info. Wow! My thermostat is broken :). I also have low temp. I had never looked at that before and didn't realize it was low. Doctors really don't know any of this. Mine wanted to do a double carpal tunnel surgery on me. I know I don't have that as I have had it before many years ago. He called it chronic CT. I think I will send this to him.

Thank you so much! Great post. i hope you realize you made my day!!!!!!!!!

TXMomma

Amazing...

my biggest problem, (which no doctor has ever managed to help m with), is extreme burning in my hands. More specifically in the pads of my hands. they are constantly "blood red" (excuse the pun!), and very hot and the pain in excrutiating.

from this research, how then do they propose we "look deeper into this" or better yet, start treatment that might relieve the pain???

Desperate in pain

Okay, I saw this out months ago, but what I saw said something like we have too many nerves in our hands. Well that sounded crazy. Too many nerves in my hands make me have pain all over? Why not too many nerves everywhere? Or wouldn't only my hands hurt more. But this goes more into in. If this is all true and not that we make too much lactic acid but just that we can't get rid of it makes some sense. How many times have you been told just exercise? You try it and you HURT like crazy! Lactic acid is in some foods and used to preserve foods, which would explain why I feel better if I eat fresh, local, organic. But lactic acid is produced by our bodies when we EXERCISE! If I can't get rid of it and I exercise and produce more no wonder I would hurt afterward a lot longer than someone without fibro. I am reading that they say lactic acid does not create sore muscles but it creates burning muscles. Hello. My muscles burn. That is the pain I feel. It is a burning pain. It may stab or throb but it burns too. And I am always cold. I can't get warm, but when I do get warm I'm hot. I am really hoping this is finally it. It makes too much sense to me to not be true.

Anyone else ever read this or take these vitamins? Wondering if anyone had success with these?

http://www.wellnessresources.com/health_topics/detoxification/lactic_acid.php

Having lived with this for 15 or more years,I agree it has pathology.But I am wary that Ely Lilly may have a drug that affects temperature in the perephal nerves.However ,I am hopeful as my temperture is rarely above 97.1. I am just a sceptical of drug companies,wonder why? hahahah

Your doctor may have something there but it is not called chronic c.t. it is something like Reflective Pain Syndrome R.P.S. ( or something simular)it is when you have something go wrong like the C,T,(which I also had) and it turns on the sympathetic nervous system ,it makes you tense up to the expectation of pain or injury.The problem being it doesn't turn off. This is best described to me as when a drunk has an accident they don't get hurt as their body doesn't tense .The sober persons does so they are hurt. Well this makes you like that person constitly tensed for the injury ,so minor traumas cause injury,multiple injuries to the body ,with no appart cause.R.P.S..Two people I knew started haqving both after breaking an ankle.I have wondered at times if this is what is wrong with me ,as I have had allsorts of injury issues also.

Oh man, somehow I missed that line. I guess I just got so excited. The last thing I need is another drug company getting rich off of me.

Interesting idea from 2013/2016, even if only to see how the hypotheses on causes of FM are developing.

This is the original article from 2013 Excessive peptidergic sensory innervation of cutaneous arteriole-venule shunts (AVS) in the palmar glabrous skin of fibromyalgia patients: implications for widespread deep tissue pain and fatigue - PubMed (the link in above thread is dead). Reading it closely shows it is only a small pilot study. In short the relevant 3/4 of the 24 fibro patients had 'more nerves in their hands, which decreases blood flow there (cold temperature) and causes more widespread pain and fatigue in muscles. SNRIs help improve that, that’s why they help some.This is FL Rice’s link to the newspaper article quoted in the OP, U of Albany link given by @natria.
His first pubmed-article about this was 2009, but it hasn’t been taken up by anyone for fibro since 2016, a review with PJ Albrecht Fibromyalgia syndrome pathology and environmental influences on afflictions with medically unexplained symptoms - PubMed thinking about if the peripheral nerve alterations discovered have to do with the CSS hypothesis and if it might have to do with estrogen. So maybe his results have invisibly flown into the CSS hypothesis.
Nothing new to date the webpage of his biotech compan Intidyn.
Albrecht has only an article about SFN on pubmed in 2016, both participate in a monkey study for migraine in 2017, and a mouse study for NF1 in 2019.

The defective AV shunts are said in the newspaper version to disturb the transport of nutrition and waste to and from muscles and skin, to disturb temperature regulation and so the nerve fibres, which builds up lactic acid which causes pain & fatigue.

What I identify with in this idea is the Raynaud connection and the fact that I like the others in the thread believe they have a cold body temperature, both of which may not be implied by the research however. What I don’t identify with is the assumption that nerves are hypersensitized, not having hyperalgesia or allodynia for instance. Also my Ache & exhaustibility & needing rest does not feel like the lactic acid from sore muscles, more like flu ache. This doesn’t travel, it’s all over (esp. limbs) at the same time. My single pains, the ones that seemed to move, all had reasons, mainly tendons, which I’ve been able to alleviate bit by bit. Latest one being loins just by putting up with the severe ache from a gym workout. (Still needing help esp. with lower back for sitting & lying down, front for bladder, the rest is stiffness, Ache etc. all over.)
I sometimes wonder whether researchers would be quicker with their ideas if we could describe our pain better (and they would try to listen better).

What it seems tho, is that this idea was not helpful enough to keep interest or that it has been engulfed by the CSS hypothesis anyway, which is still being pursued a lot …